Vale of the Failed and the Fallen, a Powered by the Apocalypse RPG, is written by Robert Turk of Depraved Intelligent Books & Video games. The participant characters are adults who, as youngsters, traveled to a fantasy world and did not defeat the Nice Evil. Their buddy died within the battle. Now they’ve returned to battle the Nice Evil one final time. Robert was variety sufficient to speak to us about his latest RPG.
Charles Dunwoody (CD): Thanks for speaking with us, Robert. Adults returning to a failed battle and the lack of a childhood buddy is a strong idea for an RPG. How did the idea and setting for Vale of the Failed and Fallen develop over playtesting and attain its ultimate type?
Robert Turk (RT): Hey Charles! Thanks for having me on. I’m so excited to speak extra about Vale of the Failed and the Fallen with you. So far as the idea, I’ve all the time cherished escapist childhood fantasy literature and movies, like Alice in Wonderland, the Oz books, Labyrinth, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Neverending Story, and so forth. After which as an grownup, the Magicians books and TV sequence by Lev Grosman helped recapture a few of that nostalgia with a grown-up twist. And I actually, actually want I might say the entire thought spun out of that love. However it didn’t. It was really two Fb memes, of all issues, that bought this journey began. The primary was a publish that requested “Why is it all the time children despatched to save lots of the world? Why not a no-nonsense grandma who has seen every part?” And the second was a Halloween costume meme with somebody carrying a shirt that merely stated ‘Gifted’ and being requested “What are you speculated to be?” Their reply, “I used to be speculated to be a variety of issues.” That basically bought me fascinated by my very own children, each youngsters, and my notably circuitous path to maturity after being labeled as a type of gifted children within the 80s. May my children save a fantasy world? May their buddies? Heck no! May I’ve completed it, then or now? Extremely uncertain! I’m not a fan of tenting, for starters. These memes led to a lot musing on why within the heck children could be the chosen ones? Why would the inexperience youth be handed the salvation of a whole world? My jaded reply: as a result of they need to assist, don’t know any higher, and are extra simply manipulated by highly effective grown-ups. And would they really have any likelihood of succeeding of their activity, even with highly effective magic on their aspect? No less than for this recreation, the reply isn’t any. However what would that failure do to a child? What would occur in the event that they have been instructed they might obtain greatness, have been saddled with expectations however little assist, and finally did not reside as much as their potential. That ‘former-gifted-kid’ query has been the conceptual through line for the complete venture. Although once I began, I wasn’t positive if this was going to be a novel or a recreation. The primary spherical of playtesting, very early on within the course of, was to find out if this concept was going to enjoyable to discover as a participant. Fortunately, it was! The lack of a childhood buddy got here in fairly early on, if not proper originally, as soon as I used to be positive this concept was going ahead as a full recreation. I wished the inciting incident to be as excessive stakes because it might probably be and provides an instantaneous sense of funding to the gamers and their characters. Anchoring the unique journey and the return to the realm to that tragic occasion helped Vale evolve into one thing extra than simply one other generic fantasy recreation. Now it had some very concrete penalties.
As for the setting, I had deliberate to create a novel fantasy world from my creativeness however drawing on all of the tropes that I had cherished through the years. I very a lot didn’t need it to really feel like D&D, so basic monsters like goblins and orcs have been out. And I knew this setting want a way of caprice widespread to the style of youngsters’s fantasy, regardless that the characters have been finally going to be adults. So, the primary few drafts of the sport had gamers in a extra static model of Eidylorn that included half a dozen kingdoms based mostly across the froglins, snail-folk, and different talking-animal denizens. However one factor I hate in RPGs is having to do homework, and the realm was totally different sufficient that gamers weren’t embracing the setting particulars until I gave them a bunch to learn. Most defaulted again to what they knew, which was barely totally different for everybody, however largely they veered in the direction of Tolkien and D&D. So, then I attempted the reverse, and let the gamers try and construct the realm with a really open-ended questions on what they wished from a recreation. That didn’t actually work both, as a result of it put them on the spot and gave them the stress of needing to make a communal setting that will really work. That’s a recreation designer or writer’s job. After a couple of totally different session zeros, I discovered the candy spot within the center: I gave people the usual races of Eidylorn and essential landmarks within the realm, they usually describe (by guided questions) which of these issues have been essential on their first journey as children. So now it’s a collaborative world-building with game-designer steerage, however no want for any pre-game homework.
CD: Vale of the Failed and the Fallen is Powered by the Apocalypse. What made you select this ruleset and the way does it match the themes of the setting?
RT: That’s an incredible query! Often, when designing a recreation, I begin with the story I need the gamers to inform and construct a brand new algorithm that helps that story and desk really feel. For instance, in Goblonia, I wished it to really feel like gamers have been seedy, determined goblins playing with their destiny and thus the mechanics are based mostly on poker playing cards. For Vale, I wished the extra conventional storytelling of the gamers to take heart stage, and thus the mechanics wanted to assist that fashion of gaming, however in any other case keep largely out of the best way. I didn’t really want to create a brand new system for this recreation. There are a number of ones on the market that already do what I wished rather well, No Cube No Masters and PtBA being two of the perfect, for my part. Having been a longtime fan of Masks and Blades within the Darkish, and having already embraced the concept of playbooks for Goblonia, I made a decision to discover different PtBA video games and actually see what I might do in that framework. I purchased and skim sooo many PtBA video games and skim an entire bunch of articles from Maguey and Vincent Baker relating to the design objectives of PtBA earlier than deciding that this was the best solution to go along with Vale. I already favor extra open-ended mechanics for my video games, and try to ensure every part builds off one central core rule. I don’t need to make video games which have one algorithm for magic, one algorithm for fight, and a completely totally different algorithm for grappling. I additionally actually like the truth that everybody utilizing set strikes, even the GM, offers a strong stability between construction and potentialities for the narrative, which in flip makes the system very new-player pleasant. If you wish to do one thing to vary the story, choose the transfer that is smart and see how effectively you handle to do it. I needed to ensure that the principles for Vale adopted my very own design philosophies and made sense for the story I used to be enabling people to inform, although.
As soon as I used to be positive I might begin with the essential framework and gameplay movement from PtBA however give it my very own twist, I used to be offered. Convincing my playtesters took somewhat extra work! A part of this was the selection to restrict battles to a most of three rounds. Agon does one thing related in its mechanics and I like how they’re able to seize the motion and drama with out descending into “I roll to hit. The monster takes seven factors of injury. Rinse and repeat till one thing dies.” So, I actually tried to embrace an extended lens, cinematic view level of a battle, largely to maintain the story rolling and all of the gamers engaged. I additionally wished to ensure that the set of fundamental strikes was tight however common, in order that any final result a participant aimed for may very well be simply coated. There are some factors within the recreation that we do break from PtBA conference, like rolling cube on the finish of every session to see how the better world modifications. I had initially deliberate for this to be extra narrative and transfer based mostly in nature, however I discovered that such an method simply took too lengthy and lessened the sense of pleasure on the finish of a recreation. Now, the gamers’ mechanical selections (what number of hope to spend in the course of the recreation or how a lot menace to offer to the GM) has a fast however impactful impact on the general downtime and helps make the realm really feel dynamic and alive.
CD: Gamers select playbooks based mostly on magical artifacts like Blade and Masks. What impressed these playbooks and the way do they encourage roleplaying in recreation?
RT: These have been very a lot impressed by the previous D&D cartoon the place the youngsters hop on a carnival experience and find yourself as heroes in one other dimension. Every of them will get an artifact, that in some instances doesn’t match their persona in any respect. If I keep in mind accurately, the barbarian was somewhat child with a membership of large power, the paladin was a coward with a magical protect, and the wizard was slightly hopeless throughout however he will get a magic hat. I actually wished to separate who the characters are from the items they’re given, and play up that disconnect between the expectations others have of them and what they’re really able to doing. For example, in Vale, the Coronary heart playbook is granted a therapeutic amulet, so their magic is that they’ll heal. However they don’t must play a typical healer/cleric trope right here. It’s not like they went to highschool to be a physician or first responder (although they might have), they aren’t dedicating to a lifetime of service to a particular god, they don’t take vows or oaths, they simply get a soul-bonded amulet that provides the flexibility to maintain their buddies going. They’re most likely anticipated to fill a assist function by way of that artifact, and the participant chooses that function by selecting the Coronary heart, however there may be nothing stopping the character/participant from additionally being a frontrunner, or sneak, or perhaps a entrance line fighter. All through design and playtesting, we labored very arduous to ensure each playbook might deal with a number of participant kinds and character backgrounds, and that they have been all enjoyable and fascinating. That is most likely what we spent essentially the most time on, merely asking “Is that this means enjoyable? Is that this playbook working for you? Are you able to play the character you need to play?” And utilizing these solutions to repeatedly tweak the sport. I may also word, that by the 4 inner playtest campaigns we ran, in addition to a number of exterior playtest teams and lots of conference video games, I by no means noticed any two gamers use a playbook precisely the identical method. Which hopefully means it really works precisely like I wished it to.
CD: Do you will have any fascinating anecdotes or tales from playtesting Vale of the Failed and the Fallen?
RT: Oh boy… Yeah. These damned horsipedes. One thing I’ve needed to be taught as a recreation designer who begins playtesting his video games very early within the course of (to actually strive stuff out and break the sport on the desk earlier than I get locked into something), is that you need to keep centered on what you’re testing however maintain it open and enjoyable for the gamers. Which for me signifies that they’ll give you some actually loopy, off the wall, smash your plot concepts—however so long as I be taught one thing in regards to the recreation from it, breaking the story doesn’t really matter. More often than not, the gamers don’t actually know what I’m being attentive to, what my very own notes say, and what I must work out for myself. I inform all of them originally of each recreation, “You don’t must have any design solutions in any respect. That’s my job. All you want are the questions: Does this make sense to me? And am I having enjoyable with it?” Now, I’ll typically ask “What do you consider this?” Or, “This bugs me proper now due to X, how about if we did Y as an alternative?” And the ever in style, “I do know it is a large change, however I really want you to strive it this manner so I can see the way it fails in play.” However actually, I simply allow them to play, and give you all types of insane concepts to attempt to frustrate the lifelong storyteller in me. I really use this instance within the core ebook, and it’s nonetheless my favourite, because it led me to the truth that gamers ought to have an equal half in constructing the world of Eidylorn, and that as a GM, all you really must do is be a great listener.
I believe it was the primary session of the second or third playtest marketing campaign when the difficulty of beasts of burden got here up. It was proper after I had launched the concept of gamers constructing the world collectively in session zero, and one of many gamers requested how they might get from one a part of the realm to a different. Horses is the simple reply, in fact, however I used to be tempted to start out describing one thing fantastical like small, domesticated dragon or certain elemental blimps or no matter. Nonetheless, I finished myself and requested as an alternative, “What do you assume it needs to be?” One other participant on the desk instantly shouted, “Horsipedes!” And earlier than I might say no, the group began laughing and speaking amongst themselves about what number of legs it took to make a horsipede, and how briskly they might transfer, and the way many individuals might experience one. I simply sat there shaking my head in amazement and dismay. Of their world, the usual mode of transportation was a horsipede. A transfer or two later, that they had captured one, normal a set of saddles for it, and have been racing throughout the hills on hundreds of legs. Later within the story, the emotional bond that they had with this horrible creature grew to become a ache level. That they had to decide on whether or not or not go away it behind in harmful circumstances to proceed by a darkish magical portal, or to take a for much longer, safer route however lose the benefit of shock. That second within the story had a lot extra weight as a result of this was a component of the narrative that they had added, not one thing I had given them as a pre-existing aspect of the world. From that time on, I knew the important thing to being a great GM for Vale meant listening to the gamers, encouraging them to assist on this planet constructing, and asking them “What do you assume it needs to be?” every time I might.
CD: In Vale of the Failed and the Fallen, the PCs each construct a stronghold and recruit denizens of the fantasy realm to battle the Nice Evil. How did this distinctive mixture of guidelines, roleplaying, and world constructing turn into this ultimate type?
RT: This main half lastly all got here collectively in the direction of the very finish of the playtesting cycle, because it largely offers with the end-game and if you find yourself working a marketing campaign, you don’t get to check that as typically as every part else. In actual fact, for our final inner play take a look at group, we ran the ultimate showdown a number of other ways, one week aside, so we might all see which one labored higher for us. However I knew from the start that this wasn’t a recreation about adults saving the realm just by being stronger or extra highly effective this time round. They must method the issue of saving the world from a grown-up perspective. They must be taught from previous errors, proper their previous wrongs, and cope with their baggage. And meaning sharing the duty of being a hero, setting the denizens of the realm as much as battle for themselves, and being strategic in regards to the milestones they have been doing alongside the best way. As an alternative of simply being a bunch of children on their very own with magical artifacts, having allies needed to be essential to their success. And there wanted to be a rally level for these allies to collect and plan. However, I additionally wished the marketing campaign to have a set ending.
I like people whose campaigns have lasted years on finish, however I believe these campaigns final as a result of they’ve made good buddies and luxuriate in spending time collectively. They may inform any tales in any system, and I believe the end result could be the identical. To me, a great story has to have an ending. And finally, Vale is meant to be a journey to that ending. For that ending, all your allies get to participate within the ultimate battle towards all of the armies of the Vassal of Darkness. So, the extra allies you will have, or the extra enemies you’ll be able to take off the board earlier than this level, the higher it’s going to go for you. The heroes’ first journey ended with a lethal, remoted confrontation. I wished the second journey to culminate in a single ultimate, huge battle. The heroes face off towards the large unhealthy as soon as extra, however this time they’re actually surrounded by their supporters and buddies. I used to be actually fascinated by the ultimate moments of the film Willow, and even Lord of the Rings. You might have these nice sweeping battles of big armies, earlier than you get that ultimate face off. Importantly although, the ultimate battle wanted to comply with the identical guidelines and use the identical mechanics of every part else within the recreation. There are some new modifiers, particularly for the tip recreation, and a number of the extra narrative particular strikes work in a different way, however you don’t have a completely new algorithm to deal with this once-in-a-game state of affairs. The largest problem was ensuring all these allies and enemies felt like they really mattered. And I believe the movement we settled on ensures that they actually do.
CD: For GMs used to working D&D or Pathfinder, what would you say to encourage them to run a marketing campaign utilizing Vale of the Failed and the Fallen?
RT: First off, D&D and Pathfinder are nice video games. I’ve performed and cherished many classes of D&D through the years. Whilst an indie recreation designer, I totally acknowledge that I might not have a profession in any respect with out D&D, TSR, and Wizards of the Coast doing what they’ve completed mainly created this pastime. So, no shade on anybody who prefers to stay with both of these video games. On the finish of the day although, regardless of absolutely the wealth of fabric on the market for each of them, D&D and Pathfinder are actually good at enabling a sure type of play by a specific fashion of story. They’re nice for tactical, dungeon crawling adventures. However there are far more tales on the market to inform, and a variety of different nice video games which can be frankly significantly better at telling these totally different sorts of story. Vale was designed to inform a special type of story. And one of many earliest questions I needed to ask, and reply, for myself and my gamers was “Why not simply do that as a D&D marketing campaign setting?” And the reply is that this story doesn’t work as effectively with these rule units. This isn’t a recreation about tactical fight, leveling up, and combating numerous monsters—all of that are nice issues in the best story! It is a recreation that focuses in tighter on the journey and emotional progress of the characters, not their exterior talent progress. And, like I stated above, it’s a journey that ends.
I don’t need or anticipate gamers to exchange their lengthy working marketing campaign with Vale. I need them to have a memorable story about remorse and redemption after which transfer on to discover different video games and different tales. To me, gaming is kinda like consuming out, all of us have our favourite eating places with acquainted meals that we completely love and can return to again and again. But when we ate there for each single meal, it might get kinda boring. We must always all be open to experiencing and making an attempt new issues. And, from a purely economical viewpoint, you solely want one copy of the ebook, in no matter medium you like, to play Vale. Your gamers simply want the playbook character sheets, and people are free on our web site together with a bunch of different play aids. So, the danger may be very low right here. After I run Vale at conventions, I solely do session zero and the return to the realm state of affairs. Since world and character creation is a bunch exercise that tells a narrative, that alone is sufficient of a journey to be a passable and fulfilling gaming expertise. So, if the premise pursuits you, go forward and provides it a strive. On the very worst, you’re going to get new concepts to carry again to your individual favourite system. However I’m fairly assured you should have a good time enjoying, and also you don’t even must plan a marketing campaign or do any exterior world constructing!
CD: Thanks for speaking with EN World, Robert, about Vale of the Failed and the Fallen. Any ultimate ideas about RPGs you’d wish to share?
RT: Thanks, Charles! And thanks to my gamers, followers, buddies, and supporters who’ve enabled me to interact in these shenanigans for nearly a decade now. Folks typically ask why I moved from conventional fiction to writing video games, and I believe the primary motive is that video games carry folks collectively. A ebook you’ll be able to learn by yourself, and that’s an exquisite factor. However a ttRPG is healthier with buddies! People are social creatures, and enjoying an RPG strengthens our means to speak, assume critically, and work collectively. I do know most of us previous a sure age have so many different tasks in our everyday lives. It takes a variety of effort to plan a recreation and really get collectively. However it’s value it! As I instructed my eldest baby who’s away at school proper now and looking for a tribe to slot in with, “Discover an open desk, lay down a recreation ebook, toss some cube on a desk, and begin making a personality. Your folks will come. I promise.”
